Thursday, September 10, 2009

The Typical Jehovah's Witness Defense

No sooner than I finished uploading yesterday's blog post, I received yet another anonymous comment about what I had written about Jehovah's Witnesses. Of all of the assorted stuff I have written about so far, it is the posts that I write about Jehovah's Witnesses that gets the overwhelming majority of comments. Now before any Jay-Dubs go getting their pants wet thinking that people are interested in them........let me explain and make it clear. The comments that I receive have been from Witnesses themselves........and maybe a few "apologists" or "defenders" of the Watchtower. Needless to say, I encourage readers here to offer up some comments...........both pro or con............I do not reject any comment. I will delete expletives that are over the edge and still post your comment.

Probably the most interesting things about whatever I have posted about Jehovah's Witnesses here, are the comments. To make my case against this cult group, there is nothing better than their own words. If I make a claim and declare that it is true, I fully expect that a dissenting opinion would come forth and make the case where I am wrong...........of course, IF I am wrong.
When I am NOT wrong, I typically get some delirious moron attempting to divert from the facts and "kill the messenger". Back in July of 2008, I wrote the post entitled "Jehovah's Witnesses Should Read This". If you would like to view that post with all of the comments that ensued, just check the archive list found at the right side of your screen. With the arrival of the latest comment, I decided to give that comment its own page here.......lest it gets lost in the muck.

So here it is the latest comment from an anonymous "defender" of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, Inc. and its followers known as Jehovah's Witnesses.

(My own responses to the commentary will be shown as well.)

Anonymous writes: "Wow its not shocking to see an old geezer be so against a specific religion. :)
Everyone is allowed to their opinions, so obviously you're entittled to it."

Signtopia Says: I am only "half-old", but yes, I am entitled to my opinions.

Anonymous writes: "Although you've "studied" this for many years, you should know that there is a lot of hypocrasy on all other religions."

Signtopia Says: You can rest assured that it has been many years. Of course there is hypocracy to be found in just about all religions. Did you notice though, that I was specifically writing about the Jehovah's Witnesses?..........who, by the way, believe that they alone serve God and all other religious groups serve Satan.

Anonymous writes: "Like why do religions support war?"

Signtopia Says: Fair question..........and some might even ask why God supports the same.
I would ask you why it is that the Watchtower owns stock in a company that almost exclusively has US Defense Dept. contracts..................hmmmm.....what were you saying about hypocracy?

Anonymous writes: "Isn't it wrong to go and kill people?"

Signtopia Says: Another fair question. The answer is: Yes......and No. Killing for the fun of it would be wrong. Killing for financial gain would be wrong. Killing people because of an extreme threat to life......well........kill or be killed. Let's put it this way.........when you refuse a life-saving blood transfusion for your child, such killing is not justified. The idea that Jehovah's Witnesses never kill anyone is ludicrous.

Anonymous writes: "The military brainwashes their "soldiers" (or puppets) :) into thinking that its okay to take someone elses life away."

Signtopia Says: Hmmmmm.........really? Let me I supposed to think that people join the military with some pre-disposed idea that everything is all warm and fuzzy and that there will never be any possibility of ever needing to use a weapon?.........are you kidding me?

Anonymous writes: "So why not go agaisnt that instead of going agaisnt a religion who is pro-peace?

Signtopia Says: Pro-peace?.........does this mean that the Jehovah's Witnesses cannot find one written sentence in any of their publications that declares that all other religions are their "enemy"? If you have no enemies of your own, then you can say something about being "pro-peace". Furthermore, how can you explain the Watchtower owning the stocks in Regi-Tech, which is involved in those really quiet stealth remote controlled bombers?

Anonymous writes : "Yeah there are terrorists out there and a few bad people, but that's no excuse. :)"

Signtopia Says: Really?........just a few bad people?

Anonymous writes: "And now that i mention it, Muslims or whatever the hell they are, they teach that blowing yourself up and killing everyone who isn't part of their religion is good. And we ALL know that's wrong, so why not go agaisnt them like you are with the JW's? Something else to think about. :)"

Signtopia Says: Are you demanding equal time?......hehehe.......seriously, I cannot write about everything. I am sure you also want me to write about the Scientologists, the Moonies, the Mormons, and even Hasidic Jews.

Anonymous writes: "As far as the sisters, I can boldly claim to everyone that I'm a devoted vegetarian while eating a steak. :)
But just because i boldly claim to be one in front of everyone, it must be true right?
And that the vegetarian community is WRONG and we should be agaisnt it right? :))"

Signtopia Says: Ahhh so finally you hint about the Venus and Serena Williams issue. For the record, the Williams sisters have stated that they are indeed Jehovah's Witnesses. Anonymous wants to somehow get folks to believe that they are liars. Perhaps the Williams sisters are what you would call "Jehovah's Witness hypocrites".

Anonymous writes: "So far the JW's have been a good example when compared to the other bs religions."

Signtopia Says: you want to compare them to all the other religions? That is interesting......I think that is a great's start first with comparing them to all other cult groups.

Anonymous writes: "It's kinda funny to see how easily people go agaisnt them."

Signtopia Says: Is it more acceptable for "brother to turn against brother"?

Anonymous writes: "When you see someone in the news, and they happen to be a JW, they always mention that. But when you see a stupid jackass in the news who went on a killing spree, they never mention that he was a catholic, or buddist or some other religion. Why is that? :) Hypocrasy maybe?"

Signtopia Says: For me.......when I see or hear about a JW in the news for nefarious reasons......I then wonder just how many of those were reported where it wasn't mentioned that the perpetrator was a JW. First, surely you understand that there are far more Catholics and Buddhist on the planet than there are Jehovah's Witnesses. Secondly, Catholics and Buddhists generally do not come knocking on everyone's door. Thirdly, the overall perception of Witnesses that come to your door is that they are "nice people" even though we might not all agree with their beliefs. And finally, most JWs never believe that they have people in their own organization that do some very nasty things.....maybe a news report is the only way to inform them.

Anonymous writes: "And if you say that because the JW's teach peace is the reason why the mention it, then I'm a little confused.."

Signtopia Says: I think you are more than a little confused, regardless.

Anonymous writes: "Don't all the other religions teach that? And if not, aren't they all a bunch of nazis and baby killers? so to speak. :) lol."

Signtopia Says: Is this the point where you are somehow justifying the Declaration Of Facts letter that the Watchtower sent to Hitler?........hehehe.

Anonymous writes: "So think about that, if you're agaisnt the JW's you should be agaisnt any other kind of religion because the facts are there that the other religions are hypocrits."

Signtopia Says: Therefore, using your logic, I should dislike all car companies because Ford once made the Pinto.

Anonymous writes: "And if you are in fact agaisnt church's in general, why are you telling people to read any other kind of bibles? Maybe this old geezer is a hypocrit. :) haha.

Signtopia Says: Nice try to suggest that I am "against church's in general". Sorry, but that was no where near a "fact". By the way........I wonder what your definition of "church" is. Regarding other bibles...........the only so-called "bible" that I have ever told anyone to not read is the New World Translation, it isn't worth the paper it is written on.

So there you go folks..........

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  1. Anonymous6:09 PM

    I just stumbled across your blog through my Google Alerts daily e-mail.

    I want to say thank you!

    I'm 39. I was born and raised in the JW faith and I must say, it has completely ruined my life.

    There are so many horror stories I could tell you about what it's like to be a child in a rabid eschatological cult. No joy. No normal childhood milestones. Beatings if you complain about having to go to the Kingdom Hall several times a week. Getting bullied at school because you don't sing Happy Birthday or participate in holidays. Being singled out by school teachers who take their dislike of JWs out on the helpless children of JW parents (one of my teachers used to make me stand in front of the class while telling my classmates that I was "un-American" because I didn't salute the flag). Not to mention knowing that if I needed a blood transfusion to live, my own parents would GLADLY allow me to die because some old farts in Brooklyn told them to.

    90% of my family are JWs. This cult is like a virus. It cannot survive unless it spreads itself to as many hosts as it can. Therefore ONE family member who becomes a JW will work tirelessly to convert every family member they can until your whole family and social network are head-nodding zombies.

    I never had children (I'm female) simply because I vowed at an early age to not subject another innocent to this destructive cult.

    I tried to kill myself at 14 because of this cult. I became depressed over normal teenage growing pains. Back in the early 80's, the common attitude was, if you're a JW and therefore among "God's chosen people," you have zero reason to be depressed. Since I was, the so-called loving "brothers and sisters" of my parents' congregation decided that I was demonized. No one talked to me. I wasn't even disfellowshipped yet I was treated as such. So, I tried to kill myself. Then I was thrown into a hospital for a month.

    The ONLY reason I was discharged, was when my very angry mother yanked me out when the psychiatrist suggested to her that it was her and my father's religion that was making me so deeply depressed.

    I was beaten for "embarassing her, my father, and Jehovah."

    I hate this cult.

    Thank you for taking them on.

  2. JW's in general are convinced that their religion is the one true religion, that they do not listen much to what critics say.

  3. Anonymous7:06 PM

    As posted above from Anonymous,"This cult is like a virus. It cannot survive unless it spreads itself to as many hosts as it can." AMEN!

  4. Anonymous10:09 AM

    Wow many of you are highly ignorent. Im 14 and about half of my family are JWs ( im not though) many of these things are wrong, it sounds like you've never even met a JW before. Almost all of them are kind people who just want to worship. And to the lady who wrote the other comment about her being depressed and living in hell none of those things even happen anymore. Also about this article I dont think that person is even a JW they dont sound like any I've heard before. And JWs religion is not a cult. They do nothing like a cult.

  5. Dear Alexander,
    Thanks for commenting.

    You write that many of "you are highly ignorent". The problem is, you haven't bothered to specify anything.......was there something particular on your mind? How will anyone know unless you spit it out, specifically.

    Seriously, your comment, while appreciated here, is so very typical of so very many people that are close to the organization, that it does nothing in defense of JWs, and it merely serves to back up everything that I have written about JWs. Then again, you are only 14.

    One thing that stood out in your comment, though, is what you said about the lady being depressed and living in hell. You wrote that "none of those things even happen anymore"......huh? You must be kidding......really? Since when did this all come about? Can you tell us? Was there some sort of "new light"?

    It appears that you may be a bit wrote about this "article" (and I suppose that meant this blog post that you are commenting on), that you have some idea that the anonymous person is a JW. The anonymous person that I responded to in the post was someone that was responding about another post I had written regarding JWs. As a result, other people sometimes respond anonymously as well. There is no way to truly know if all "anonymous" commentors are related or the same person. Furthermore,nobody is required to identify themselves here......they do not even have to say whether they are or are not a JW.....or even a former JW......or, one such as yourself......just an unbaptised kid with JW family.

    I disagree with you as to whether or not the Watchtower is a destructive cult. It certainly fits the description.........what description or definition of a destructive cult do you have?

    Would you mind clarifying things for the readers here?

  6. Anonymous8:18 PM

    Let me refrase that statement saying "that stuff never happens anymore" It all depends on the people not the religion as a whole. There is always a bad apple in the bunch. Heres an example not all muslims want to blow up america do they? I think not, actualy most are very friendly infact. This is the way of the world not everyone is nice but in all of my experinces with JWs on the wholethere are very kind. Also to what the woman said about " this religion is like a virus. It cannot survive unless it spreads it's self to as many hosts as it can" if you want to look at this one religion that way you need to look at all religions that way. No religion can survive without people caring about it. Also its your choice wether to be in it or not. You eather want to be a JW or you don't its not like a virus where you have no choice.

  7. Anonymous10:38 PM

    Alexander, you were born in the organization or at least close to it, weren't you?

    If so, you may find your thoughts on the organization changing as you get older. If you're lucky, it will happen during your teen years, but it does not happen to many that are born in until they are closer to 30. In my experience it seems to run parallel with how "spiritually mature" you are within the organization's definition of the term - namely, how sharp your critical thinking skills are, how well you understand the doctrine, and how much knowledge you have of the Bible. Interestingly enough it seems like the more "spiritually mature" someone is generally considered to be the closer they are to leaving.

    I'm going to point out some fallacies in your logic. It's not in pursuit of criticizing you personally nor encouraging you to abandon your faith but instead is in pursuit of helping you strengthen your critical thinking skills. Your arguments would be more convincing if they actually made sense.

    1. You point out that there is always a bad apple in the bunch and use the example of how while some Muslims may want to commit acts of violence most are very friendly. That's all fine and dandy, but later on you say that the way of the world is not nice but that JWs are very kind. So which is it? These both cannot be valid points at the same time because one logically cancels the other out and vice versa.

    2. "If you want to look at this religion that way you need to look at them all that way"
    First of all, please realize that there are many religions that have survived without attempting to "spread like a virus" i.e. heavily evangelize. I know it's hard to believe other religions don't push themselves on others as heavily as the JWs do, but it's true. Most find it sufficient enough to have faith and pass that faith on to other individuals when it seems like it will be needed and appreciated by them as opposed to obtrusively knocking on everyone's door and trying to indoctrinate the people around them as much as possible. It's not because they have any less desire to share their faith but because they believe that God will lead them to share their faith at the moment it is needed and welcome along with believing that sharing that faith in a manner or at a time that the other person is very unlikely to accept it not only is ineffective but can also drive the person further away from their faith than they were before they even knew about it.

    There's a second aspect to this. Why does a virus spread? When you take Biology in school (if you haven't already) you will learn that a major benefit of this is that the faster the virus is able to spread the less likely it is to die out when the original hosts' immune systems call "game over". In this comparison to a virus, the person was implying that the religion would not survive were it not for new converts because it can't hold on to the majority of the old converts; not that no one cared about the religion.

    3. "its your choice whether to be in it or not" The fallacy in this statement is that it is restricted to your personal point of view, which is going to be quite narrow if you have not experienced or noticed lack of choice on your part. My reality was much different. It wasn't a choice for me and I don't believe it is a true choice for any one born in to the organization - even if they want to do something like celebrate birthdays their parents certainly will not allow them to (assuming those parents are "good" JWs) and even if they manage to leave they still face the possibility of being shunned by all of their family and friends either officially or unofficially. Then there's the major reason why I myself left - one is strongly discouraged from "independent thinking" and purposeful exposure to, much less real consideration of differing points of view.

    I hope these words find you in peace. :)

  8. Anonymous6:47 PM

    They do I dont want to be a JW ( Thinking methodist idk) your as sharp as a tack and I have enjoyed trying to banter with you on this term but it seems you have me beet lol. Thank you and I want to say how much I respect you and they way you think and express those thoughts A.M.

  9. Paul(Starchasr)4:44 AM

    Hi my names Paul I was baptised as one of Jehovahs witnesses in 1989 and I am proud to be assosiated with Gods people.

    They ae the kindest,most considerate people on this planet and more importantly this is because their faith is based on the absolute truth of Gods word the bible.

    Although "annonymous" makes many valid points I dont see any proof that he is one of Jehovahs witnesses and therefore the heading to this page is misleading by calling it a "typical Jehovahs witness defence."

    If you really want to know Jehovahs witnesses then you should speak to them by going to the kingdom hall or speaking to them next time they knock on your door,,,Theres no obligation to take it further than that and then you will be able to make an informed judgement.

    Thank you....

  10. This comment is for Paul(Starchasr)

    Paul, most JWs are "proud" to be JWs, but there are gobs of JWs that would tell you that true JWs should not be prideful. Also, the majority of JWs would say that JWs are the kindest people on earth........your words were expected here.......but I can also say that it is very likely that most cult members of any cult group would say the very same thing. Regarding what you wrote about "anonymous" valid points........are those valid points any less worth considering if anonymous happens to not prove to anyone that he or she is a "valid" JW? Hmmmmm.....this is where you stumbled all over yourself.......and this is where the "typical JW defense" comes into is a shame that you do not realize or recognize that your very words make my case here. Not misleading at all.......the post, if you had read it might want to reread it again......explains it was a continuance of the original post "Every Jehovah's Witness Should Read This". I recommend that you read that as well. Now here is where I just loved your final statement in your comment.........I will just add a few words in parentheses for you.
    "If you really want to know Jehovahs witnesses (Venus and Serena Williams, Prince, etc.)then you should speak to them next time they knock on your door (just like Signtopia does). There is no obligation to take it further than that and then you will be able to make an informed judgement (just like Signtopia has).

    Thanks Paul for clearing everything up.....hehhehehe.

  11. bonnie7:25 PM

    as a former jw yes i can attest that there are very loving kind sincere witnesses,i feel i was one of them. the reality is that these qualities do not prove what you believe is true as i found out. my quarrel is with the gb who mislead and punishes those who shine a light on them by silencing them through disfellowshiping. i did what most jw's don't do...look up the sources they quote from listed in the back of their publications. you will find time and again quotes taken out of context to support their agenda, so called authorities who are on the fringe of the scientific community and not respected by their peirs. i read articles from the scientific community who said they wrote to the society to quit misleading the reader by quoting something they never said and using their name to suport their distorted point of view. they said their requests were ignored. i can't tell you what a betrayal this was to see this with my own eyes. in the past i was put through mental torment trying to defend this organization who i deeply belived had the truth until i had the courage to put it to the fire. very painful leaving but the one thing i will agree with the bible "the truth will set you free" it sure has me and i am a better and happier person for it.

  12. Bonnie,
    As it is and always shall be, the facts are facts and those facts are the stair steps to truth. The truth should always be able to stand up to any and all scrutiny. There are many aspects to religion and probably the biggest obstacle to truth is when people become addicted to their religion. That addiction tends to blind people to the extent that they have no clue as to what the facts are. I am delighted to read that you are no longer tormented by an evil corporation that operates under the guise of religion.